To check on the current Penang Government.: eh conservation la why r we building a new Chowrasta market

I am concerned in many ways on this project. Despite the promises of it being green and caters to various user groups, it is no longer Chowrasta Market, as we know it. It seems like the plans are to make it into a mall instead.
I dread the death of another historic icon in the city..
Market makeover
thestar.com.my
ONE of the oldest markets in Penang — the Chowrasta Market — will be transformed into an iconic landmark in the state under a proposed major facelift project costing up to RM12mil.
·  ·  · Share · 22 February at 10:52
3 people like this.
Alena Lau the maintainance of the plants on the wall might cost a lot of $$ and effort... will mppp manage to do it?! when will the mppp conduct public briefing or collect public feedback?!
22 February at 11:19 ·  ·  1
Ben Wismen my biggest issue with the whole thing is the sheer disregard of the original architecture of the building. Look at the honeycomb walls.. look at the post-war architecture. All those are not reflected in the new concept. I am surprised that this actually comes from LLA, considering that the project doesn't really conform to LLA's frequently expounded term, 'spirit of place'
22 February at 11:22 ·  ·  4
Alena Lau some more it is such a big new chunk in a main street of heritage site...
22 February at 11:30 ·
Ben Wismen exactly. it sticks out like a sore thumb. At times, green initiatives should be lauded. But not all green initiatives are sound. It should be evaluated case-by-case, and also depends on the suitability of the project
22 February at 11:32 ·
Leroy Luar Wet markets can be modern and clean. Loads of fish markets in Frisco have been updated with modern amenities and the ice and the fish and the old school ways are still thriving. Development and heritage are not necessarily antagonistic luor...
22 February at 11:35 ·
Ben Wismen I don't oppose development, and yes. Wet markets should be clean. But transforming it into a mall? That is a little too much, right?
22 February at 11:36 ·
Leroy Luar As I said earlier, a rose by any other name. :P
22 February at 11:37 ·
Steve Miller multi storey car park - that should please the tourists :-)
22 February at 11:51 ·
Alena Lau please the local more only if drivers willing to park their car inside...
22 February at 11:59 ·
Jan van der Heijden Creepers in plant boxes. Creepers will be neglected after a while and the plan boxes will be used as ashtrays cum garbage bins.
22 February at 12:12 ·  ·  2
Leroy Luar That's no reason to not have these amenities. The people want so much to have a say in planning but do not lift a single finger to contribute to implementation and maintenance. As per the littering problem, it's high time we implement the 'shame on you' method. Shame the next person you see littering on the streets and keep on doing it en masse until we get the message through.
22 February at 12:14 ·
Jan van der Heijden Look at the road separation in front of Plaza Gurney and G-Hotel. No maintenance, only costly replacement (tax payers money) every now and then. Rubbish in the sea all over Gurney Drive (where are the enforcement officers to shame/fine the culprits?
22 February at 12:27 ·  ·  1
Leroy Luar We can't rely on the state/local council officers for everything. Lazy asses makan gaji buta/ they can't be everywhere all the time/ we have to help if we talk about caring so much. When someone drops a piece of litter in my eyeline, I walk up to him/her and pick it up. Depending on how the person looks (some profiling is necessary unfortunately), I either return it to him/her or take it to a dustbin conspicuously. And I'm always prepared to run. :)
22 February at 12:31 ·  ·  1
Rebecca Wilkinson This project concerns me too. Chowrasta caters to many locals & also foreign workers, as well as those of us who love the weird & wonderful tidbits found there. It is way fun to rummage around it's grubby corridors- I love it.. With Mydin across the street & all the stall holders, they are all part of the 'complex' as is the dynamic of the market alongside, behind & onto Kuala Kangsar Road. This atmosphere is altogether a brilliant local experience & it would be a shame if we lost too much of that smell, sight & sound experience. I agree that it is need of an upgrade but I'd hate to see it all change where the shopkeepers there now are forced to move out because of things like higher rentals after the reno. The reno itself will cause people to move & re-establish elsewhere- this in itself is pretty detrimental yes?
22 February at 12:45 ·  ·  8
Trevor Vale As a tourist, I visit George Town to see places with atmosphere like the Chowrasta Market. Have noticed a difference since my previous visit about a year ago though. Walking the streets now requires looking down a great deal in order to avoid falling into the many and ever increasing gaping pavement holes.
22 February at 14:01 ·
Ben Wismen ‎Rebecca Wilkinson, exactly my thoughts. We would only be displacing the local traders, while catering to a new niche. The traders will again go out onto the streets, creating the lively street market again. All the efforts would be in vain. We need to improve the building, yes. Improve the ventilation, bring in natural lighting. Reuse structures like the old cinema etc, but not to the extend of removing a heritage structure just to replace it with another mall. Honestly, Penangites are so lazy that the council parking in Hutton Lane is not even properly utilized, and people prefer to park haphazardly along Campbell Street. The situation should make the whole area pedestrian friendly, rather than to replace it with a mall
22 February at 14:59 ·  ·  1
Leroy Luar I agree with making the place pedestrian friendly. No car Sundays!!!!
22 February at 15:00 ·  ·  1
Ben Wismen If KL can build an air conditioned walkway all the way from KLCC to Pavilion mall, why can't we use part of that money to free our 5-foot ways, improve shade, repave walkways, or possibly, explore underground tunnels to improve pedestrian connectivity in Penang?? Think of it, if we could network Komtar to Chowrasta market, isn't that a better option? Rather than to remove the market, and make it into a parking/mall
22 February at 15:03 ·  ·  2
Leroy Luar Underground networks? That's abit rapey unless you're including retail space along these tunnels as well.
22 February at 15:06 ·
Ben Wismen it's only just a thought. Kawasaki has one of the best underground network/mall, just by the central train station. It conveniently links to various attractions, malls and also the local train station. Plus, they have good retail spaces there for permanent shops and also temporary display booths. If that can be done there, why not in Penang?
22 February at 15:13 ·
Jan van der Heijden Digging from Komtar to Chowrasta underneath heritage houses wil most probably result in damaging the heritage houses and definitely in overshooting the budget of 12 Mln.
22 February at 16:33 ·  ·  2
Ben Wismen It's just a thought. I would appreciate it if we could just free the 5-foot ways, restore the pavements and provide ample shading for the walkways around the area
22 February at 16:35 ·
Ganesh Kolandaveloo I couldn't agree more with Ben. Rather than focussing and venting our frustration on the Chowrasta market makeover, wouldn't it be far better to use our creatrive juices to drive the council to free up the 5 foot ways. Many are closed up and pedestrians have to walk on the road. This is far more meaningful to the average penangite ....and if we do make it happen, believe me many local folks will thank us PHT for changing things that directly effect their lives for the better.
22 February at 17:16 ·  ·  1
Nazlina Hussin http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.penangheritagecity.com%2Fgeorge-town-market-research.html&sa=U&ei=DMVET53lFqzKmQXk1LX0Aw&ved=0CAwQFjAE&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEtx5pepr_6Zr7hP93EeZMkBx_vUw
22 February at 18:36 ·
Nazlina Hussin This research was done last year. The question is, how do the authorities interpret the wants of the locals and incorporate them in their plans.
22 February at 18:37 ·
Leroy Luar Fun!
22 February at 18:38 ·
Ben Wismen good research, looks fun, but what are the results?
22 February at 19:14 ·
Nazlina Hussin I believe the results were submitted to ThinkCity and MPPP. So from the plan that was drawn up, not sure if that is what the public wanted.
22 February at 19:29 ·
Nazlina Hussin Results should be available from Arts-Ed people.
22 February at 19:29 ·
Mark Walker It seems crazy to me that they are proposing putting in a multistory car park ..surely they should be planning more efficient public transport ..smaller buses taking 15-20 pax , every 5-10mins around the core heritage area ..special residents permits ..goods delivery only within specified times of the day and clear the 5ft Ways . Please dont take the heart out of Chowrasta and the surrounding area . By all means modernize it and make it more hygenic .
22 February at 23:05 ·  ·  2
Leroy Luar I like the idea of more efficient public transport. I'm a bus rider myself and choose not to own a car. But let's be honest: how many of you guys would park and ride? The only reason why no improvement has been made in this area is because there are not enough of us to complain. At any given moment, buses are populated only by students, the odd white collar worker like myself, domestic help and foreign labourers. We like our cars and the status it confers waaaaaaaay to much and we make up too many excuses to justify refusal for using public transport. Yes. Super passionate about the cause for public commute. And super pissed at all the NATO as well.
23 February at 14:56 ·  ·  1
Lim Cheok Siang Jimmy KOMTAR is already an iconic building in Georgetown. Great cities like Georgetown is able to sustain two "iconic" buildings? If not, is it the intention that this Chowrasta iconic landmark to replace KOMTAR? When will demolition commence?
23 February at 16:38 ·  ·  1
Khoo Salma ‎Kevin Mark Low who had something to do with the Badan Warisan study of Chowrasta Market may have something to say. He is actually a member of this discussion group. Kevin? I was not involved in the study, so only heard about it indirectly.
23 February at 21:10 ·
Kevin Mark Low thanks for alerting me to this salma, im afraid ive been a touch distracted of late and not been paying proper attention to important issues - and hello there everyone. i was invited to be part of a badan warisan brainstorm session about a year ago, and the primary participants in attendance were lawrence, helena hashim and myself. issues that were discussed were based on studies and surveys done between two weeks and a month with local traders and occupants of the market, as well as shoppers and general users. the survey pointed to a clear desire for the market not to be demolished, and to serve the purposes of adaptive reuse. the specifics of the discussion will take a whole lot more than a post on this thread to sort through, so let me just give you guys the summary of what my specific thoughts and recommendations were. - 1. that multi-storey wet markets are not and have never been a part of malaysian culture, which is the reason why chowrasta failed, to begin with. recommendations were made to have all the wet market functions of chowrasta located on the ground level and in ways to better engage the activity of the street during wet market hours; the street culture of malaysia being so integral to the idea of its wet markets. - 2. that the second hand bookshops on the upper floor were still very used and relevant (based on the surveys conducted), and pointed to the possibilities of educational- or academically-related facilities on the mid-levels of the market. - 3. the proposed activities for the upper levels of the market were gauged to be absolutely vital in the success or failure of the revamp: that in order to fully energise the mid levels of the existing chowrasta, an anchor was required at the uppermost level, with its mostly extant and lovely concrete vaults. my suggestion was to approach Thinkcity and have them set up their corporate offices at the uppermost level, with freshly glazed-in vaults directing awesome views one side to the hills and the other to the water: the idea was to get Thinkcity to put their money where their mouths were and to get them actually engaged with the activity of Georgetown itself by inhabiting it. the whole idea of having a whitecollar corporate entity occupying the top level of a heritage building while sharing the ground floor of one of the most active wet markets in the country, felt to be an opportunity that just couldnt be missed. just as viable an alternative for the uppermost level were office space for creatives - artists, graphics people and architects, to name a few. the big idea was about putting the right sort of mix back into chowrasta market, for each activity to feed off the other. - 4. i felt that extremely little needed to be actually done to the upper exteriors of the building, the project was one of completely reinventing the way the interiors functioned. the external faces of the ground level perhaps required a fresh look, since the interiors of the ground floor, being as closed off as they were from inside to outside, resulted in dead activity zones. whether the intervention were to be in the way of mobile awnings and stalls, or the demolition of selected walls for greater spatial flow was not discussed at that early a stage. - 5. the entire point of the exercise was not to provide guidelines as to the form the intervention should take on, rather than to determine the problems the existing market faced and to formulate proper solutions that anyone taking on the project could follow. it was about reconfiguring content, not designing form. - 6. lastly, the survey did not indicate that regular users of chowrasta were in any way inconvenienced by traffic, vehicular or otherwise. i felt that the proponents for removing the street business and activity around the market did not constitute regular users, and as such, did not quite understand the mind of the chowrasta 'local'. - in summary, it appears from a quick look that lawrence has indeed gone a little too immediately into form rather than the design of appropriate content that will ultimately deliver excellent form. green walls and vertical gardens are so imitated and passe, its amazing intelligent people in the tropics eve adopted the idea, seeing that our vertical gardens already come in the form of trees. that said and done, i would be considerably more interested to see what lawrence has programmed for the interiors of the building and its street edges and activity immediately around it. architects tend to be quick with designing form, and as such, forget the processes that configure that form. perhaps its still too early to slam judgement, but id say lets get rid of the bloody creepers first. ill drop lawrence a line to let him know what everyone thinks, have i read you guys right?
23 February at 23:02 ·  ·  6
Yee Li Ong excellent said and thank you
23 February at 23:14 ·
Lim Cheok Siang Jimmy Thanks Kelvin for the lengthy explanation. It would appear that the preoccupation with 'iconic' building is a permanent flaw in the mindset of local architects. If both BWM and Think City are truly interested in global solutions for what they stand and represent then such studies could perhaps be conducted with a more liberal engagement policy rather than one currently being practised. Your disappointment in what has been proposed is understandable. However if the building of this iconic structure means that KOMTAR will be replaced perhaps the trade off is not so bad after all. We can live with that. When will you be coming to Pen next Kelvin? Call me 012 2651528
Friday at 07:07 ·
Kevin Mark Low Hi jimmy, ill definitely call you when I'm next in town, its been literally years ; ) not sure when that will be as I'm still moving around quite a bit. On a side note with regards to komtar - the trade off you speak of is with reference to komtar being replaced. Does the state governemnt have plans to demolish komtar? You know, to have it replaced? ; ) if not, perhaps we don't need to add to the existing crop of icons that the country is already so filled with.
Friday at 08:48 via Mobile ·
Mark Walker Thank you Kevin for that explanation .it puts a lot of detail into the discussion .
Friday at 18:07 ·
Lim Cheok Siang Jimmy where can we see the design for the proposal? Kelvin do you by any chance have them?
Yesterday at 02:03 ·
Kevin Mark Low not to worry mark, tons more specifics that could be considered really - could be a minefield, or a lovely waltz ; ) jimmy, i think the only person to talk with about the design is lawrence...i have only seen what has been posted, which isnt much.
Yesterday at 11:51 ·