To check on the current Penang Government.: Fwd: Chowrasta what so special about you ??!!

Penang ppl loves their places, they grow attached to them.

Chowrasta use to have a restaurant up top and a supermarket, gee I was barely four years old.

That makes it forty six years ago.

I was just telling my nephew about this place.

Please keep the street market, ppl my parents age in the 70s cant climb stairs anymore, on a flat road street market, yup they can still go do some marketing.

If you kill Chowrasta, the uncles n aunties will die with the market, they will have no where to go and feel that they r at the end of the road.

All I ask of Jin Cheng is to conserve.

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Ben Wismen
I am concerned in many ways on this project. Despite the promises of it being green and caters to various user groups, it is no longer Chowrasta Market, as we know it. It seems like the plans are to make it into a mall instead.
I dread the death of another historic icon in the city..
Market makeover
thestar.com.my
ONE of the oldest markets in Penang — the Chowrasta Market — will be transformed into an iconic landmark in the state under a proposed major facelift project costing up to RM12mil.
·  ·  · Share · 22 February at 09:52
Gwynn Jenkins and 4 others like this.
50 of 71
Ben Wismen It's just a thought. I would appreciate it if we could just free the 5-foot ways, restore the pavements and provide ample shading for the walkways around the area
22 February at 15:35 ·
Ganesh Kolandaveloo I couldn't agree more with Ben. Rather than focussing and venting our frustration on the Chowrasta market makeover, wouldn't it be far better to use our creatrive juices to drive the council to free up the 5 foot ways. Many are closed up and pedestrians have to walk on the road. This is far more meaningful to the average penangite ....and if we do make it happen, believe me many local folks will thank us PHT for changing things that directly effect their lives for the better.
22 February at 16:16 ·  · 2
Nazlina Hussin http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.penangheritagecity.com%2Fgeorge-town-market-research.html&sa=U&ei=DMVET53lFqzKmQXk1LX0Aw&ved=0CAwQFjAE&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEtx5pepr_6Zr7hP93EeZMkBx_vUw
George Town market research done by local authorities to improve the conditions at the busiest marke
www.penangheritagecity.com
George Town market research done by local authorities to improve the conditions at the busiest markets in the city done between 18-21 March 2011.
22 February at 17:36 ·
Nazlina Hussin This research was done last year. The question is, how do the authorities interpret the wants of the locals and incorporate them in their plans.
22 February at 17:37 ·  · 1
Leroy Luar Fun!
22 February at 17:38 ·
Ben Wismen good research, looks fun, but what are the results?
22 February at 18:14 ·
Nazlina Hussin I believe the results were submitted to ThinkCity and MPPP. So from the plan that was drawn up, not sure if that is what the public wanted.
22 February at 18:29 ·
Nazlina Hussin Results should be available from Arts-Ed people.
22 February at 18:29 ·
Mark Walker It seems crazy to me that they are proposing putting in a multistory car park ..surely they should be planning more efficient public transport ..smaller buses taking 15-20 pax , every 5-10mins around the core heritage area ..special residents permits ..goods delivery only within specified times of the day and clear the 5ft Ways . Please dont take the heart out of Chowrasta and the surrounding area . By all means modernize it and make it more hygenic .
22 February at 22:05 ·  · 3
Leroy Luar I like the idea of more efficient public transport. I'm a bus rider myself and choose not to own a car. But let's be honest: how many of you guys would park and ride? The only reason why no improvement has been made in this area is because there are not enough of us to complain. At any given moment, buses are populated only by students, the odd white collar worker like myself, domestic help and foreign labourers. We like our cars and the status it confers waaaaaaaay to much and we make up too many excuses to justify refusal for using public transport. Yes. Super passionate about the cause for public commute. And super pissed at all the NATO as well.
23 February at 13:56 ·  · 1
Lim Cheok Siang Jimmy KOMTAR is already an iconic building in Georgetown. Great cities like Georgetown is able to sustain two "iconic" buildings? If not, is it the intention that this Chowrasta iconic landmark to replace KOMTAR? When will demolition commence?
23 February at 15:38 ·  · 1
Khoo Salma ‎Kevin Mark Low who had something to do with the Badan Warisan study of Chowrasta Market may have something to say. He is actually a member of this discussion group. Kevin? I was not involved in the study, so only heard about it indirectly.
23 February at 20:10 ·
Kevin Mark Low thanks for alerting me to this salma, im afraid ive been a touch distracted of late and not been paying proper attention to important issues - and hello there everyone. i was invited to be part of a badan warisan brainstorm session about a year ago, and the primary participants in attendance were lawrence, helena hashim and myself. issues that were discussed were based on studies and surveys done between two weeks and a month with local traders and occupants of the market, as well as shoppers and general users. the survey pointed to a clear desire for the market not to be demolished, and to serve the purposes of adaptive reuse. the specifics of the discussion will take a whole lot more than a post on this thread to sort through, so let me just give you guys the summary of what my specific thoughts and recommendations were. - 1. that multi-storey wet markets are not and have never been a part of malaysian culture, which is the reason why chowrasta failed, to begin with. recommendations were made to have all the wet market functions of chowrasta located on the ground level and in ways to better engage the activity of the street during wet market hours; the street culture of malaysia being so integral to the idea of its wet markets. - 2. that the second hand bookshops on the upper floor were still very used and relevant (based on the surveys conducted), and pointed to the possibilities of educational- or academically-related facilities on the mid-levels of the market. - 3. the proposed activities for the upper levels of the market were gauged to be absolutely vital in the success or failure of the revamp: that in order to fully energise the mid levels of the existing chowrasta, an anchor was required at the uppermost level, with its mostly extant and lovely concrete vaults. my suggestion was to approach Thinkcity and have them set up their corporate offices at the uppermost level, with freshly glazed-in vaults directing awesome views one side to the hills and the other to the water: the idea was to get Thinkcity to put their money where their mouths were and to get them actually engaged with the activity of Georgetown itself by inhabiting it. the whole idea of having a whitecollar corporate entity occupying the top level of a heritage building while sharing the ground floor of one of the most active wet markets in the country, felt to be an opportunity that just couldnt be missed. just as viable an alternative for the uppermost level were office space for creatives - artists, graphics people and architects, to name a few. the big idea was about putting the right sort of mix back into chowrasta market, for each activity to feed off the other. - 4. i felt that extremely little needed to be actually done to the upper exteriors of the building, the project was one of completely reinventing the way the interiors functioned. the external faces of the ground level perhaps required a fresh look, since the interiors of the ground floor, being as closed off as they were from inside to outside, resulted in dead activity zones. whether the intervention were to be in the way of mobile awnings and stalls, or the demolition of selected walls for greater spatial flow was not discussed at that early a stage. - 5. the entire point of the exercise was not to provide guidelines as to the form the intervention should take on, rather than to determine the problems the existing market faced and to formulate proper solutions that anyone taking on the project could follow. it was about reconfiguring content, not designing form. - 6. lastly, the survey did not indicate that regular users of chowrasta were in any way inconvenienced by traffic, vehicular or otherwise. i felt that the proponents for removing the street business and activity around the market did not constitute regular users, and as such, did not quite understand the mind of the chowrasta 'local'. - in summary, it appears from a quick look that lawrence has indeed gone a little too immediately into form rather than the design of appropriate content that will ultimately deliver excellent form. green walls and vertical gardens are so imitated and passe, its amazing intelligent people in the tropics eve adopted the idea, seeing that our vertical gardens already come in the form of trees. that said and done, i would be considerably more interested to see what lawrence has programmed for the interiors of the building and its street edges and activity immediately around it. architects tend to be quick with designing form, and as such, forget the processes that configure that form. perhaps its still too early to slam judgement, but id say lets get rid of the bloody creepers first. ill drop lawrence a line to let him know what everyone thinks, have i read you guys right?
23 February at 22:02 ·  · 9
Yee Li Ong excellent said and thank you
23 February at 22:14 ·
Lim Cheok Siang Jimmy Thanks Kelvin for the lengthy explanation. It would appear that the preoccupation with 'iconic' building is a permanent flaw in the mindset of local architects. If both BWM and Think City are truly interested in global solutions for what they stand and represent then such studies could perhaps be conducted with a more liberal engagement policy rather than one currently being practised. Your disappointment in what has been proposed is understandable. However if the building of this iconic structure means that KOMTAR will be replaced perhaps the trade off is not so bad after all. We can live with that. When will you be coming to Pen next Kelvin? Call me 012 2651528
24 February at 06:07 ·
Kevin Mark Low Hi jimmy, ill definitely call you when I'm next in town, its been literally years ; ) not sure when that will be as I'm still moving around quite a bit. On a side note with regards to komtar - the trade off you speak of is with reference to komtar being replaced. Does the state governemnt have plans to demolish komtar? You know, to have it replaced? ; ) if not, perhaps we don't need to add to the existing crop of icons that the country is already so filled with.
24 February at 07:48 via Mobile ·
Mark Walker Thank you Kevin for that explanation .it puts a lot of detail into the discussion .
24 February at 17:07 ·
Lim Cheok Siang Jimmy where can we see the design for the proposal? Kelvin do you by any chance have them?
26 February at 01:03 ·
Kevin Mark Low not to worry mark, tons more specifics that could be considered really - could be a minefield, or a lovely waltz ; ) jimmy, i think the only person to talk with about the design is lawrence...i have only seen what has been posted, which isnt much.
26 February at 10:51 ·
Faiz Akhbar Interesting project!
14 March at 00:36 ·
Gwynn Jenkins interesting comments!
14 March at 16:07 ·
Citizen Chant what about a public consult, we r a democracy, let the architect tell us about his design plan and concept.
20 March at 09:04 ·  · 2
Citizen Chant the rear part of the market is used as a street market. The street market gives the place character. If this was taken away, it would be rather dissapointing.
28 March at 05:17 ·  · 4
Citizen Chant MPPP when is the public consult ??
31 March at 17:08 ·
Citizen Chant CHANT meeting WED 530pm at 38 Perak Road, Penang. we will be discussing this issue
3 April at 06:26 ·
Citizen Chant No more street market ?? Our heritage is lost
10 April at 08:48 ·
Citizen Chant any updates ?? Ho Sheau Fung
18 April at 10:19 ·
Elizabeth Cyl So heart breaking if it becomes a mall. Will these people never learn or realise?
18 April at 11:06 ·  · 1
Citizen Chant any1 got more news on this ?? A topic to discuss with YDP?? Ho Sheau Fung, Khoo Salma
8 May at 11:58 ·
Timothy Tye Different people from different generation going back to the 19th century will know the Chowrasta Market differently. The site has been rebuilt many times. Nothing of the original Chowrasta Market remains today - except the name. If we want authenticity, is everybody ready for the time when it was an open-air market? What we are witnessing is urban evolution.
9 May at 22:46 ·
Jan van der Heijden Urban evolution YES, bu, but, but with consideration for heritage and environment please.
10 May at 08:48 ·
Rebecca Wilkinson ‎Timothy Tye urban evolution has definitely got to happen but not at the risk of bad development. There is a risk that by accepting 'urban evolution', you then accept that heritage/culture is dispensable & can be just wiped out to move forward. I'm not saying this project is bad development but it has to look at all aspects. Potentially turning it into a mall- if this is truly the case- will change the whole atmosphere of the area. What is needed now is to make sure we try to keep the traders that have established themselves in the area & who have added to the 'vibe' of the place. It is a centre for shopping for all locals, tourists & foreign workers. It provides retail/wholesale goods to many levels of society. This building somehow is the central axis for Mydin, the open air street market(which is I think, fabulous) going down Jln Chowrasta & Lebuh Tamil on to Jln Kuala Kangsar & also connects Penang Road, to Campbell St & Kimberly St. A big change now to Chowrasta will impact on all in this area. It's really dynamic in this area & it would be great if State/Council etc present the plan properly in it's complete form- not just dump bits of it into the news where there will be just a knee jerk reaction.
10 May at 15:41 ·  · 3
Pc Chin Oh no my fav place to buy or loan my story books during the good old days, not another mall please!
10 May at 16:05 ·  · 2
Rebecca Wilkinson ‎Pc Chin Thats why it would be good if State could present the whole plan, not just put an article out saying the building is being renovated by such & such architects & the ideas are such & such. Right now no one actually knows what they really plan to do with it!
10 May at 16:54 ·  · 3
Khoo Salma MPPP is calling for a discussion on the Chowrasta Market on 2 July. Whoever is interested, please write in to PHT. Not sure how many people we can invite, but we will ask.
27 June at 21:28 ·  · 3
Kevin Mark Low will do my best to be there salma, tons of questions!
28 June at 09:03 ·  · 1
Timothy Tye My opinion of Chowrasta Market is this: when the market was first established, it anchored the western end of the Indian settlement of George Town, which spread from Market Street, through Chulia Street to Penang Road. Today the Indian presence has been much reduced to what we know as Little India, and Tamil Street (beside Chowrasta).
In our effort to preserve, we should celebrate that part of history that gave birth to Chowrasta Market, how it got its name, how the Indians were a significant presence in the early 19th century. That, to me, is a culturally significant part of Chowrasta that has been largely forgotten. We only remember what we can see, but that's not good enough. We must be able to remember and appreciate the Chowrasta Market that existed before, the one that gave it its name.
28 June at 10:25 ·  · 2
Kevin Mark Low terrific timothy, im glad youre going beyond form with your analysis. lets now apply that same process of thinking to the proposal now before us that appears to pay too much attention to its own form and insufficient attention to its content. the current proposal doesnt look like it pays the smallest heed to the complexity of issues youve started to describe.
28 June at 10:43 ·  · 2
Rebecca Wilkinson Looking forward to this presentation- will be there.
28 June at 11:53 ·  · 1
Timothy Tye Yes, I'll try my best to make it for that MPPP thingy. I've just told Sheau Fung. Meanwhile, here's how Chowrasta looked like in 1911, from Visions of Penang: http://visionsofpenang.com.my/images/images/WPPC104c.jpg
Chowrasta was an open air market before that building was built.
28 June at 13:41 ·  · 2
Citizen Chant i want the street market now to remain
Saturday at 17:38 ·
Ben Wismen let us see the presentations on monday, and we will further update on the decision for the market
Saturday at 18:24 ·  · 2
Citizen Chant how was the meeting ??
Yesterday at 17:09 ·
Timothy Tye How was the meeting? To my chagrin, it doesn't sufficiently showcase the long history of Chowrasta Market. Unfortunately most people's memory of Chowrasta goes no further back than the present 1961 building, whereas Chowrasta's history goes back to the early to mid 19th century. This is no ordinary market. It is older than many cities in Malaysia. What is amazing is that it has been on the same spot for over 150 years. Faces have changed, skin colors have changes, but Chowrasta Market is still here today. That, to me, is significant.

Previously, we have no say. When the authorities erected this 1960s market building, our mindset was "new is good, old is bad." There wasn't much room for nostalgia in the past.

But times have changed. We, the people of Penang, should now be more conscious of our history, our heritage. I for one am concerned that with each subsequent face-lift, the historic significant of Chowrasta Market will be washed away, leaving nothing behind except the name. Don't get me wrong: if the authorities want to demolish the whole thing and build anew, I don't mind, as long as they do it with complete sensitivity to this market's past while creating something congruent with the aspirations of the present, and practical to the needs of the community. But if nobody is going to remember the past, I shall at least try my best to remind them to.

At least I got to speak my mind at this meeting. And I hope the powers that be will take my view into consideration, that the long history of the market has to be preserved, showcased and celebrated. Surely this isn't too much to ask.
22 hours ago ·
Rebecca Wilkinson It was good! but will not solve all the complicated problems & issues that will definitely come out of this whole 'revitalisation' process. Several issues came up & were discussed: is a multi storey car park really necessary; will the issues be solved by a change in design of the architecture or is it really smaller issues of dealing with people; issues have really come from the lack of control by MPPP & allowing a bad situation to snowball; there are issues of licensed & unlicensed stalls & how to resolve these; the green factor was presented well but all agreed that unless managed something like a hydroponic or organic urban farming area on the top floor may not work; options for top floor include a community zone; the relationship between the market & the surrounding streets, businesses, restaurants etc & how to keep this going; ideas to keep the fish, chicken, slaughter areas inside & custom cater to their needs; fruits, dried fruits veggies kept to the side of the market & out into the road where there may be some kind of roofing provided to allow business to take place during rain & shine; the issue of discussion about the project came up & that MPPP should present plans more openly; it was confirmed that discussions took place with stall holders & many ideas were discussed before these plans were done: plans get presented to the market stall holder again this month & then after reworking if necessary, the plans will be presented to the public at a later date for open discussion & feedback; discussions on who would use the carpark; does the market work as it is, do customers adapt to the problems of parking etc in the area; one of the main issues was health & sanitation especially with the slaughter of fish & chickens- how is this to be dealt with in a proper manner; will the stallholders make the changes necessary to help manage the market long term; will MPPP really provide the management & enforcement needed to sustain & ensure that the plan for the market works. Mr Yew gave a great conclusion which explained the whole process & why of what MPPP were trying to do with Chowrasta. He should do this more often! He has requested that the consultants, LLA Architects, take into consideration all the comments today & make amendments where they can. Anyone else at the meeting please add to my comments....we now await the public presentation & hope that many more people will look & comment in order to give their views. Thanks.
22 hours ago ·  · 2
Nazlina Hussin Sorry was not able to attend. Would love to see that the discussion is going to be fruitful..
22 hours ago ·
Timothy Tye ‎Rebecca Wilkinson I got lost in the forest of words! You can set new paragraphs by pressing Shift+Enter.
22 hours ago ·
Yee Li Ong thanks rebecca. thanks.
22 hours ago ·
Rebecca Wilkinson ‎Timothy TyeI have a family to feed, MPPP to chase & reports for the meetings I go to. No time for shift & enter- wish!!!
22 hours ago ·  · 1
Kevin Mark Low it was a very good presentation for me, because it generated a terrific discussion and i now have a better idea of what i believe would work there. but i am not sure if the the points actually did get through. like rebecca, i feel the problem really isnt an architectural one, but one having to do with creating a better functioning street market where it has currently evolved on jalan kuala kangsar - an environment that the current chowrasta market can then be developed to support. a more rounded solution than what was presented today might well be a radical departure from what we have come to expect of typical urban and planning strategies which i hope lla and city hall are ready to work towards.
21 hours ago ·  · 2